I named this blog Nachos, cause I was going to blog about the local ice cream truck man who also sells nachos, but this looked a *lot* more interesting:
[conversation from Friday 9/1/2009]
[18:30] <Tenebrae> hrm
[18:30] <Tenebrae> ^,^ really does look like an owl
[18:31] <RPharazon> It does, doesn’t it?
[18:31] <RPharazon> I quite like it.
[18:31] <Tenebrae> me too
[18:31] <Tenebrae> like >:3 is a monobrow lion
[18:31] <Tenebrae> hrm
[18:31] <Tenebrae> O,O
[18:31] <Tenebrae> sort of like an owl
[18:31] <Tenebrae> o,o
[18:31] <Tenebrae> i like that one better
[18:32] <RPharazon> “For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”
[18:33] <Tenebrae> then he doesn’t really have the whole world, does he ^,^
[18:33] <RPharazon> Yus.
[18:33] <RPharazon> Reminds me a lot of what is happening today.
[18:33] <Tenebrae> what’s that?
[18:33] <RPharazon> People are looking to gain the world, but lose their souls in the process.
[18:33] <RPharazon> What are riches when you can lose them in a few days?
[18:34] <Tenebrae> the idea of riches, though, is that they help you gain other things
[18:34] <Tenebrae> purrhapsh, example
[18:34] <Tenebrae> lots of money = big teevee = moar fun on ecksbawks = more fun with friends = friends over more often = less lonely
[18:34] <Tenebrae> but then to keep those friends entertained you need foods
[18:35] <Tenebrae> so foods = moneys
[18:35] <RPharazon> Yus, but those are small gains.
[18:35] <Tenebrae> I don’t think being less lonely is a small gain
[18:35] <Tenebrae> it keeps some people from committing suicidde
[18:35] <Tenebrae> to me, helping someone stay alive
[18:35] <Tenebrae> giving someone a reason for living
[18:35] <Tenebrae> is worth a lot more than any amount of money
[18:36] <RPharazon> Exactly.
[18:36] <Tenebrae> some people do end up working their lives away just for others
[18:36] <RPharazon> Money cannot comfort you if you have no friends. Riches cannot comfort you if you are self-interested.
[18:36] <Tenebrae> even if it’s for small moments of happiness
[18:36] <Tenebrae> well, no
[18:36] <Tenebrae> but, I think, everyone is to a certain degree self-interested
[18:36] <RPharazon> True.
[18:36] <Tenebrae> it makes me happy to make others happy
[18:36] <Tenebrae> so, I make others happy for my own benefit
[18:36] <RPharazon> But not to the point of many financial pundits today.
[18:37] <Tenebrae> I suppose
[18:37] <RPharazon> I think Jesus was talking about power and wealth there, not small gains or mortal comforts.
[18:37] <wallyweb> RPharazon: Environmental Irony >> http://www.newtimesslo.com/news/1604/outfoxed/
[18:37] <RPharazon> Could you be happy with one million dollars?
[18:38] <Tenebrae> it’s sort of annoying, though, when the media does their supposed exposures of rich people
[18:38] <wallyweb> no
[18:38] <RPharazon> Now, think about the difference in happiness if you had 50 billion dollars.
[18:38] <Tenebrae> and show the rich men and wimmin in their fancy ass cars
[18:38] <Tenebrae> I wonder if they ever think about what if they have their fancy ass cars to have their children be proud of them for doing something
[18:38] <Tenebrae> like at school, there’s always the little kid with the fat mom in the station wagon who wants to be dropped off at the farthest corner of the school
[18:39] <Tenebrae> and then there’s the other kid with the milf mom in the BMW who wants to be dropped off right at the door
[18:39] <Tenebrae> of course, it doesn’t give the milf mom’s husband the right to embezzel or steal, or, like, do illegal things
[18:39] <Tenebrae> but I wonder if the media, or the media’s audience to be more exact, ever cares about showing things like that
[18:40] <RPharazon> Well, it’s a weird social condition, innit?
[18:40] <RPharazon> I personally can’t find any rationale in worshipping celebrities and status items like that.
[18:40] <RPharazon> They may have a BMW, but what does that matter?
[18:40] <Tenebrae> neither do I, but it’s what we’re fed every day
[18:40] <RPharazon> Are they better people in any way?
[18:40] <Tenebrae> not necessarily
[18:40] <Tenebrae> but, they are rich
[18:40] <Tenebrae> and that’s gotta come from somewhere
[18:40] <wallyweb> [22:38:10] <RPharazon> Now, think about the difference in happiness if you had 50 billion dollars. << It’s not the money … It’s the power it buys
[18:41] <RPharazon> True.
[18:41] <Tenebrae> if it’s inheritence, well, maybe the dad or the grandad was a genius executive
[18:41] <Tenebrae> and they get to be proud of that
[18:41] <RPharazon> But tell me, would you be happier living a simple life with the things you like to do, or living a vastly complicated life with so much money that you don’t know what to do with it?
[18:41] <Tenebrae> there’s always something to do with money 
[18:42] <RPharazon> What is wealth and power if you are not happy with yourself?
[18:42] <Tenebrae> well, yeah
[18:42] <Tenebrae> there’s always the rich wife who overdoses on painkillers cause her husband never pays attention to her
[18:42] <Tenebrae> BUT
[18:42] <Tenebrae> the husband may have done all that for her
[18:43] <Tenebrae> you know
[18:43] <Tenebrae> to make her happy/comfortable/whatever
[18:43] <Tenebrae> proud, even
[18:43] <Tenebrae> hrm
[18:43] <wallyweb> That’s because he’s busy scamming for the money he thinks he needs to buy stuff for his wife.
[18:43] <Tenebrae> but what if he’s not scamming 
[18:43] <Tenebrae> what if he’s really making honest money
[18:44] <wallyweb> that is a rarety
[18:44] <RPharazon> It is an exception, not a rule.
[18:44] <Tenebrae> I don’t think it’s as rare as people think
[18:44] <wallyweb> it is
[18:44] <Tenebrae> call me naive, then 
[18:44] <RPharazon> Deep down inside, is that honest man with his honest money truly happy with himself?
[18:44] <wallyweb> hello Naive, my name is wallyweb 
[18:44] <RPharazon> Is his life what he envisioned when he was a child?
[18:45] <Tenebrae> if he’s achieving his goal, I think he is
[18:45] <RPharazon> People can achieve goals without knowing why.
[18:45] <Tenebrae> if wha the does gives meaning to his life
[18:45] <Tenebrae> and he’s proud of it
[18:45] <Tenebrae> and he likes to do what he’s doing
[18:45] <Tenebrae> and everything he cares about is done right
[18:45] <Tenebrae> and going well
[18:45] <Tenebrae> then, I’d say he’s happy
[18:45] <RPharazon> I have several friends in these advanced classes working their asses off and suffering, but they don’t even know why they are doing it. They don’t know what they want to do after they graduate, and they honestly don’t know why they are studying so hard to achieve that goal.
[18:45] <wallyweb> Other than doctors, nobody, and I mean nobody, makes a lot of money without taking advantage of somebody else.
[18:46] <Tenebrae> even saying that, wally, I think you could apply it to doctors too
[18:46] <Tenebrae> they make a living off of other people’s illnesses
[18:47] <RPharazon> Aye, but they cure those illnesses, not exacerbate.
[18:47] <Tenebrae> not all of them
[18:47] <wallyweb> true … but they don’t make the patiewnts sick to accomplish it
[18:47] <wallyweb> *patients
[18:47] <RPharazon> They do not take advantage of them because they can’t.
[18:47] <Tenebrae> maybe not, but you always hear about that one kid with cancer who can’t afford an opperation
[18:47] <Tenebrae> why can’t he afford it?
[18:48] <Tenebrae> if the doctor’s so kind, and not in it for the money, I’m sure he can pull strings to get it done for free
[18:48] <wallyweb> because he does not live in Canada
[18:48] <Tenebrae> or at least get the price reduced so the child’s family can afford it
[18:48] <RPharazon> It’s not that easy, Tenebrae.
[18:48] <RPharazon> He could lose his medical license.
[18:48] <Tenebrae> then, why isn’t some Canadian doctor’s heart be moved to get the child to Canada somehow?
[18:48] <Tenebrae> well that’s my point, RPharazononononon
[18:48] <Tenebrae> it’s so difficult to really say who’s happy and who isn’t
[18:49] <RPharazon> Why heal one person when you can heal so many others in the future?
[18:49] <wallyweb> Tenebrae: They actually do that
[18:49] <Tenebrae> I’m convinced there are plenty of super rich people out there that are really happy with their lives
[18:49] <RPharazon> Why is that one person worth the lives of everyone else?
[18:49] <Tenebrae> wallyweb, that’s another point, why don’t I ever hear about things like that?
[18:49] <Tenebrae> RPharazon, I didn’t say it’d have to sacrifice another person’s life
[18:49] <RPharazon> Media.
[18:49] <wallyweb> because the media do not report it
[18:49] <Tenebrae> that’s another point
[18:49] <RPharazon> Nobody ever says “Plane lands safely” and nobody ever says “Cars drive fine on the roads”.
[18:50] <Tenebrae> exactly
[18:50] <RPharazon> They say “Plane crashes with 200 fatalities” and “Car jackknives into a school bus.”
[18:50] <RPharazon> People live on misery, practically.
[18:50] <Tenebrae> they report what’s out of the common.
[18:50] <Tenebrae> what’s out of the ordinary
[18:50] <Tenebrae> like the tree man
[18:50] <Tenebrae> or, the columbine shooting
[18:50] <Tenebrae> or, I dunno
[18:50] <Tenebrae> any number of things
[18:51] <wallyweb> “I’m convinced there are plenty of super rich people out there that are really happy with their lives” and completely oblivious to the less fortunate they trampled on to get there.
[18:51] <Tenebrae> yep
[18:51] <Tenebrae> but they’re happy
[18:51] <Tenebrae> someone told me earlier today that it’s easy to not care too much about the people one doesn’t know
[18:52] <Tenebrae> I’m sure those rich people are aware of things like sweat shops and child prostitution
[18:52] <Tenebrae> and things like that
[18:52] <wallyweb> it’s a fact
[18:52] <Tenebrae> it’s just that people don’t *care*
[18:52] <Tenebrae> at least not enough to do something about it
[18:52] <Tenebrae> I think that’s more or less my problem with the world
[18:53] <Tenebrae> and, watch this
[18:53] <Tenebrae> if I try and convince people to care
[18:53] <Tenebrae> they call me an extremist!
[18:53] <wallyweb> “The shareholders expect me to deliver a profit”
[18:53] <Tenebrae> they say I’m annoying for bothering them
[18:53] <Tenebrae> if I go from house to house saying “you need to care, and this is why”
[18:53] <Tenebrae> they yell at me to gtfo
[18:53] <Tenebrae> and not push my views on them
[18:54] <wallyweb> They are selfish by nature
[18:54] <Tenebrae> I don’t think so
[18:54] <RPharazon> What truly amazes me about mass media is the tendency to love animals.
[18:54] <wallyweb> and have lost their sense of community
[18:54] <Tenebrae> no, I don’t think it’s that either
[18:54] <RPharazon> I see some animals are fed better than most children in Africa and some parts of Asia.
[18:55] <Tenebrae> RPharazon, go out and protest, and they’ll call you an Activist
[18:55] <wallyweb> RPharazon: It’s the “cute” factor
[18:55] <Tenebrae> wallyweb, you think a dog is cuter than a child?
[18:55] <Tenebrae> well.
[18:55] <Tenebrae> hrm.
[18:55] <RPharazon> Do you think a dog can get more accomplished than a child?
[18:55] * Tenebrae ’s coworker’s kid is NOT cuter than my birds .-.
[18:55] <wallyweb> not me … but there are many that do
[18:55] <RPharazon> Do you think that a dog can be conscious of its thoughts and actions?
[18:55] <Tenebrae> I think so, yes
[18:55] <Tenebrae> but not more than a child
[18:55] <RPharazon> Do you think a dog can become a doctor, a teacher, a philosopher?
[18:56] <Tenebrae> you never know
[18:56] <RPharazon> Do you think a dog can make a positive contribution to human society as a whole?
[18:56] <Tenebrae> it can save lives in wreckages!
[18:56] <wallyweb> yes
[18:56] <RPharazon> What makes that dog more special than a child?
[18:56] <Tenebrae> an a child do that?
[18:56] <Tenebrae> *can
[18:56] <wallyweb> yes
[18:56] <RPharazon> A child that grows up, yes?
[18:56] <Tenebrae> would you honestly let a leetl kid loose amongst a collapsed building to find survivors? :O
[18:56] <Tenebrae> RPharazon you’re so cruel D:
[18:56] * Tenebrae lololololols
[18:56] <Tenebrae> I really hate people
[18:56] <Tenebrae> the lazy people
[18:57] <Tenebrae> I honestly think people are inherently lazy.
[18:57] <RPharazon> Would you rather see a dog go hungry, or a human child?
[18:57] <Tenebrae> well, if we keep the dog fat enough, we could feed the human child
[18:57] <RPharazon> A child that was just like you, with dreams and ambitions and thoughts of their own.
[18:57] <wallyweb> I’ll feed the child … the dog can hunt
[18:58] <Tenebrae> see, I looked at it the romantic way, comparing animals and kids
[18:58] <Tenebrae> and I know that any person would rather feed a kid than a dog
[18:58] <Tenebrae> it’s just, logic.
[18:58] <Tenebrae> people don’t need to be taught that
[18:58] <Tenebrae> if they have a starving dog, and a starving kid RIGHT IN THEI FACE
[18:58] <Tenebrae> they’re gonna feed the kid, duh.
[18:58] <Tenebrae> but what about the kid over in whatever 3rd world country
[18:58] <Tenebrae> they don’t have the kid right in their face
[18:58] <Tenebrae> and television and leaflets and the internet has lost its charmed
[18:58] <Tenebrae> *charm
[18:58] <Tenebrae> people are so desensitised
[18:58] <wallyweb> exactly …
[18:59] <Tenebrae> they’re lazy.
[18:59] <RPharazon> People say “Someone else will do it” or “That child will pull through”
[18:59] <Tenebrae> or they just change the channel
[18:59] <Tenebrae> must easier to not even think about it
[18:59] <RPharazon> Then they spend $100 on a fucking dog jacket so the poor little chihuahua won’t fucking freeze to death at +10C.
[18:59] <Tenebrae> or, if they do
[18:59] <wallyweb> but whatclouds the interaction is that they have problems of their own
[18:59] <Tenebrae> they say “that charity probably keeps all the money”
[18:59] <Tenebrae> and then they call themselves righteous for not giving into the “big charities”
[18:59] <RPharazon> Oh no, the dog is uncomfortable and yipping!
[18:59] <Tenebrae> it’s all an excuse for lazyness
[18:59] <Tenebrae> wallyweb, yep!
[19:00] <RPharazon> They see the child dying of hunger, unable to move, wracked with pain, a skeleton with skin.
[19:00] <RPharazon> No, the dog is more important.
[19:00] <Tenebrae> RPharazon, they don’t see the kid right there.
[19:00] <Tenebrae> in front of them
[19:00] <Tenebrae> they see their precious dog, right there, in front of hi
[19:00] <Tenebrae> one of those constantly shaking chihuahua things
[19:00] <Tenebrae> they don’t see the kid right in front of them
[19:00] <Tenebrae> that’s my point
[19:00] <RPharazon> Yes.
[19:00] <Tenebrae> what i’d like to do, is wrangle a bunch of orhpans from Tijuana one day
[19:01] <Tenebrae> and dump them one by one on people’s doorsteps in Beverly Hills
[19:01] <Tenebrae> and see what happens
[19:01] <RPharazon> They will make the child do gardening work.
[19:01] <Tenebrae> Lol.
[19:01] <RPharazon> They do not care that it is a child.
[19:01] <RPharazon> They care that it is a sub-human Mexican or something.
[19:01] <RPharazon> Gar.
[19:01] <Tenebrae> if they see a kid with tattered clothing, I think maybe they would care
[19:02] <Tenebrae> it’s just, I dunno
[19:02] <Tenebrae> people are just lazy
[19:02] <wallyweb> All they will do ias say “Look at that poor kid, will you”
[19:02] * lobster_MB (~michielbr@86.89.201.189) has joined ##################
[19:03] <Tenebrae> it just, it really sucks, that most of the people who care, are usually the ones who don’t have enough money to do something about it
[19:03] <wallyweb> lobster_MB: GOOD MORNING!
[19:03] <Tenebrae> or who don’t have enough resources to do something to help
[19:03] <Tenebrae> I, myself, even, have built my own little world around me, I have to pay rent, and to do that, I have to go to work
[19:03] <Tenebrae> work causes stress, I want stress relief, I get Internet
[19:03] <Tenebrae> I have to work more to pay the Internet
[19:04] <Tenebrae> I get a boyfriend, wanna stay in touch with him, my parents, my friends who are also stress relief
[19:04] <Tenebrae> I get a phone
[19:04] <Tenebrae> gotta work more to get a phone
[19:04] <wallyweb> Tenebrae: The problem is the greedy bastards at the top who depend upon the misery of those beneath them
[19:04] <Tenebrae> I dunno wally
[19:04] <Tenebrae> I can’t just hate one group of people
[19:04] <Tenebrae> it feels wrong
[19:04] <Tenebrae> it feels extremist
[19:05] <wallyweb> sometimes extremism is reqired
[19:05] <Tenebrae> I can’t just look at the rich bitch who lives on the hill and say “This is all her fault she has all the money she can do more, hate hate hate”
[19:05] <Tenebrae> cause I know that I’m also contributing to that same society
[19:05] <Tenebrae> I’m selling the material that will go in her house/landscape
[19:05] <Tenebrae> I depend on the money she spends
[19:05] <lobster> HARRR
[19:05] <wallyweb> not “hate, hate, hate” … but rather “lok, look, look”
[19:06] <Tenebrae> but, wally
[19:06] * lobster just had a midnight jam with some people
[19:06] <Tenebrae> what if she looks, and then cares
[19:06] <Tenebrae> and spends that money on a charity
[19:06] <Tenebrae> and then I don’t get money
[19:06] <Tenebrae> and I go hungry?
[19:06] <Tenebrae> should I get charity too?
[19:06] <lobster> and now, one more episode of FMA
[19:06] <wallyweb> because she will afford to do both
[19:06] <Tenebrae> not for ever
[19:06] <Tenebrae> she’s gotta go step on more people
[19:06] <Tenebrae> to get more money
[19:06] <Tenebrae> to feed me, and those people
[19:07] <Tenebrae> you could even blame capitalism for it
[19:07] <wallyweb> not really … she can afford to pay a decent wage
[19:07] <Tenebrae> okay, but RPharazon says it’s degrading to work for a rich bitch
[19:07] <wallyweb> no … not capitalism … just simple greed
[19:08] <Tenebrae> well that goes back to the root of greed
[19:08] <Tenebrae> it’s a cycle
[19:08] <wallyweb> It’s only degrading if they don’t pay what the job is worth
[19:08] <Tenebrae> Hah.
[19:08] <Tenebrae> I know plenty of people who get what I would say is fair for the quality of work they give
[19:08] <Tenebrae> and they STILL complain
[19:08] <Tenebrae> my office is full of people like that
[19:09] <Tenebrae> even if my boss is a cheap bastard
[19:09] <Tenebrae> they don’t perform what they should
[19:09] <wallyweb> they STILL complain because they are greedy
[19:09] <Tenebrae> but, wally!
[19:09] <Tenebrae> they have bills to pay!
[19:09] <Tenebrae> they’re not rich!
[19:09] <Tenebrae> they can’t possibly be greedy.
[19:09] <Tenebrae> my BOSS is the greedy one
[19:09] <Tenebrae> for not paying them more
[19:10] <wallyweb> I’ll bet they buy stuff they don’t really need
[19:10] <Tenebrae> well, is that really anyone’s problem?
[19:10] <Tenebrae> they want to get paid for the work they do
[19:10] <wallyweb> yes
[19:10] <Tenebrae> my boss told me once “well, you live with your parents, you can’t possibly have many bills” when I asked him for a pay raise
[19:10] <Tenebrae> is that a fair way to think?
[19:10] <RPharazon> I’m currently doing a financial and budget unit in the little social-indoctrination class required by Alberta Education…
[19:10] <RPharazon> And the examples they give are so petty, it disgusts me.
[19:11] <RPharazon> And then I realize that these are real and believable examples.
[19:11] <RPharazon> Then it disgusts me even more.
[19:11] <wallyweb> Tenebrae: Your boss is wrong to think like that … just as wrong as the employee who wants to do as little work as possible for the most money
[19:12] <Tenebrae> but that’s the way work works
[19:12] <Tenebrae> you have to be as efficient as possible
[19:13] <Tenebrae> gain as much as you can with spending as little as possible
[19:13] <Tenebrae> that’s efficiency
[19:13] <Tenebrae> using as little resources as you have
[19:13] <Tenebrae> to gain as much as you can
[19:13] <Tenebrae> that’s profit
[19:14] <wallyweb> unfortunately business treats people as a resource to be used and disposed of when its all used up
[19:14] <Tenebrae> that’s the way it works
[19:14] <Tenebrae> workers are just another tool
[19:14] <wallyweb> yes … but that does not make it right
[19:15] <Tenebrae> well, no
[19:15] <RPharazon> For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
[19:16] <Tenebrae> RPharazon, I blame you for my headache.
I dunno. People build their lives, build their worlds, and they lose the ability to care about those who aren’t in front of them, those they can’t immediately help.
We need to take care of ourselves, right? We need to strive to not add to the number of deadbeats living off whatever government we have, right?
But what about all the other people who don’t have governments who can help?
Hrm. It’s all so confusing. The best I can see myself doing at the moment, is not adding to the problem. I’m not satisfied with it. But I can comfort myself with the idea that I can strive to make myself better, in hopes of one day being able to come up with a way to solve all this problems, hm?
-T.